The San Sebastian Gastronomika Congress has granted this year to Cristina Jolonch, gastronomic journalist and content director of the “ Comer” channel, owned by La Vanguardia, with its gastronomic journalism prize, named “Pau Albornà I Torras”.
Jolonch is a national-level reference in the field of gastronomic journalism, so we take advantage of her visit to Donostia to chat about her thoughts around the world of gastronomy and pintxos in San Sebastián. Furthermore, we were also able to find out more details about his latest book, “De carne y hueso”, where she interviews 40 great kitchen professionals, including some of the members of our jury, such as Juan Mari Arzak, Martín Berasategui, and Andoni Luis Aduriz.
Mikel López Iturriaga has become one of the leading gastronomic bloggers through his site “El Comidista”. We ambushed him on his recent visit to San Sebastian, but did not need to threaten him to ensure that pintxos in San Sebastian are better that those of Bilbao: we just had to meet him at Casa Urola.
Sure, we talk about “El Comidista”, pintxos, our app… in an in-depth interview you can watch here.
Antonio bar is one of the most emblematic venues in San Sebastian downtown, but it is also , for many people, a place to discover. It has been almost 25 years since Humberto Segura and Ramon Elizalde took over this business, and since then they have built up a work-based reputation. It’s hard to get a greater return from such a small place, even if Antonio bar seems smaller If you don’t come in. Humberto will discover us some of his secrets.
When did the Antonio bar open?
This bar first opened on July 7, 1969. It was opened by Antonio Royo, a well known face in hospitality in San Sebastián. He retired in ’94, and sold the business to Ramon and me. We did a makeover, because the tavern looked just like the first day of opening, and we reopened in the spring of 1995. We took this tavern because Ramon was working in Basque Bar, myself at Hotel Europa, and a lot of customers encouraged us to take over the Antonio. We had already worked together, we were friends, and everyone told us that Antonio’s was the best customer base in whole San Sebastián, thankful and well established, and that the bar was a historical one, with a good reputation due to its pintxos. It didn’t take us long to realize that everything they told us was true.
Who was in charge of cooking at that time?
We didn’t want to take any risk, so we kept both the original menu and the chef, which had been in the tavern since the opening! We thought it wasn’t time to shake things, although we did have a lot of ideas. We worked very well from the beginning, and soon we hired another chef and one waitress, and then we started changing some things in the menu.
When did you take the plunge?
In 2000, after a lot of patrons suggested it to us, we made improvements and put a dining room in the basement, moving the toilets down as well. We hired a new chef, Iñigo Tello, who came from Zuberoa Restaurant, and he did help us to change the menu. So we started to grow.
Your current chef is José Ramón Ezkurdia: what did his arrival mean to you?
In 2013, Iñigo wanted to leave, so we called José Ramón Ezcurdia, chef of Urepel restaurant, that went out of business in late 2012. First he wasn’t sure, but after a long talk whereby we told him that this project could satisfy him, due to close contact with a grateful clientele… I don’t know how, but we convinced him. Then we reshaped the menu, updated it, and here we are.
You have a really small venue, but you put a strong fight!
We work well. We have some typical dishes, like the anchovy pintxo, that we have been delivering for 50 years. It was a pintxo created by Antonio, and we have refurbished it.
There are many who don’t know you have a dining room in the basement.
That’s right. It is not very large, just six tables.
And a very special private room in the storage: sure enough, a lot of deals have been clinched there!
We only book it to our friends and regular customers, and yes, it’s a room with an unique environment.
How would you define your gastronomic offer?
We tried to work with seasonal product. The best possible service and the best raw material. Our motto has always been that we are neither the smartest nor the most handsome: we want to be the hard workers, and even if people jokes about it, we say we’re always learning. We have been here for almost 25 years, and we always try to improve our proposal. I think there are few places in San Sebastian where they can make a coffee as good as ours. And we have been able to be known from our way of pulling beer, using a brand (Cruzcampo) nobody liked.
Michelin-starred chefs in Gipuzkoa chose three of your pintxos (“Antxoa”, “Crujiente de Rabo de buey”, and “Ravioli de Langostino en salsa de Martini”) to be in the list of the 99 best pintxos in San Sebastian: What did this acknowledgement mean to you?
We were recently asked by the Basque Public broadcaster ETB to show them our three best pintxos: but we told them we’d bring them 3 of the 20 best pintxos we have. If we’re going to offer a pintxo, it has to be good. Inasmuch as we don’t like, and especially if it’s not sold, we take it away. Our pintxos are in the counter because they are sold, people like them. In fact, those three are now the ones that sell the most, and by far, the “Ravioli de langostino en salsa de Martini”. That is a dish from our restaurant, where we make it with lobster, and we decided to make a cheaper version for the tavern. When a dish is very successful, we try to get the pintxo version, as it is with the “Igeldo” pintxo, which ensued from our tomato and white tuna belly salad.
You make a virtue from what could be a handicap: a small bar counter. Your bet is to cook pintxos at the time.
The secret of making good pintxos is, for me, to cook them at the moment. We have the tavern divided in two partes: on the right side, we serve the pintxos of anchovy, salmon, octopus, smoked sardine, beef jerky, shrimp with vinaigrette…we serve between eight and ten pintxos there, toasting the bread at the moment. You have to wait 3 minutres, but you get a fresh pintxo, and that makes the difference. Inside the kitchen we have an already prepared basic recipe, but we also assemble the pintxos at the moment. Some people get nervous waiting, but then they see the difference too.
The potato omelette is another one of your signature dishes
We used to make one a day, and now we do five. 3 in the morning and 2 in the afternoon. They are big, we make 30 pintxos from each. We never thought about it in a marketing way, but it’s true however that having a limited number works, because it raises expectation.
How easy is finding a good product?
After so many years, it happens that our suppliers have became our friends. Since we started, Cárnicas Goya bring us the meat. I call Josean directly, and chops the meat for us. We also have lunch together once or twice a year, to agree on what we can improve, or what we can change. The same with our fishmonger, who is Ivan Sotero. We have moved to friendship, and he always tries to find the way to help us. In fact, there are times when some different supplier comes to us offering the same product but somewhat cheaper. Buy I don’t wan’t to lose the relationship with a provider who takes care of us. An this applies to all vendors, as if he’s the toilet soap provider. It’s two-way loyalty.
In view of space limitations in the bar, team coordination must be essential.
We do not only retain loyal to suppliers, we also retain employees. This is a good place to work, because we close Sundays and Holidays, which helps to have staff stability. Nobody leaves here.
How many workers are you on the staff?
We’re 10.
Will you arrange any special celebration to mark your 25th anniversary?
That will be difficult, because we have taken over the Barandiaran tavern, and we want to open it for Easter next year. We will try to organize it in the same way as Antonio bar’s, but more spacious and with a terrace. And keeping our stress level in mind, I think it doesn’t give us time to run anything for our 25th aniversary.
The 67th San Sebastian Film Festival starts this Friday. 9 days when the city residents go to the cinema, and the movie stars go to eat pintxos. On the ground of the “Zinemaldia”, we have visited the Astoria 7 Hotel, closely linked to cinema: it is owned by SADE company, (also owner of three cinemas in the city: Trueba, Príncipe and Antiguo Berri), and because its decor is based on the film world.Iñigo Palma is the chef of the Astoria 7 Bistroteka. He studied in the San Sebastian School of Hospitality and Cuisine, but mostly he learned at La Muralla, side by side with Iñigo Bozal. One the their pintxos in Bistroteka Astoria 7, Carrillera sobre puré de patatas (cheek over mashed potato), was chosen for our list by the Michelin-starred Chefs in Gipuzkoa.
Iñigo, how long have you been running the Astoria 7 kitchen?
I’m going for nine years now.
Is there something different about managing a restaurant inside an hotel?
Yes. In fact, at first I was very reluctant to get into an hotel, because of rumours. It’s also true that this is not what I thought was an hotel kitchen, where everything would be prepared and just ready to heat up. They allowed us to cook the way we wished to do, so we make things restaurant-style, not hotel-style.At the same time, you really have things like breakfast, events, groups… somethings you don’t have in a restaurant.
What is the basis for your gastronomic offer?
Foremost, traditional cooking. Very recognizable tastes and dishes, however we try to give them a soft sparkle.
Does the fact of being in an hotel matter?
Being inside an hotel matters. It forces you to maintain a mainstream side: you have to offer a caesar salad, hamburguers, a club sandwich… things you should find in every hotel, you cannot miss them. We also must take account of our location, outside downtown or the historical quarter. We work a lot with people from the neighborhood. There are the hotel guests, but our daily patrons are locals and workers in the area.
The 11 Michelin-Starred chefs in Gipuzkoa have chosen your Cheek over mashed potato to be in our list Pintxos- The 99 best. What does this distinction mean to you.
Any recognition is important, but the main one comes from our customer base, everytime they are pleased. Anyway, such recognition is also very welcome.
What other pintxos would you highlight from your menu?
One way or another we always have a cod fillet. Depending on the season, it will have different garnish. Risottos are also a classic we keep changing: with squid, mushrooms, prawns… According to the season we are accompanying it with different ingredients. The risotto is also a classic that we are alternating: Squid, mushrooms, prawns… Low temperature eggs are also a common staple: we garnish them with different sauces and other ingredients.
How often do you usually renew your offer?
We try to renew it twice or three times a year. Many times customers are who call for it, although sometimes the same ones who demand new things, then ask you for the pintxo you’ve taken away!
Which are most successful, cold pintxos or the hot ones?
There is something for everyone. As I have said, location means a lot, and people working around here are critical. They have just enough time to make lunch, 10-15 minutes, so they do well with the cold sandwiches on the counter or the potato omelette, which they thank a lot.
Is it hard to find good product?
It costs money. We always try to work with a good raw material, but can’t fight for some breams or soles. We are in a neighborhood, but we try to have the best long finned tuna in season, best anchovies, best scorpion fish…
Which pintxo would you stand out from our list?
When I started at cuisine school, I was really struck by the Txepetxa selection, which was always based in anchovies. And all of them tasted great. I was freaked out by all that different stuff they could do with the same base product, and how great they were. Our own Beef cheek pintxo has to do with the success La Cuchara de San Telmo got with theirs, Martin Berasategui also cooked cheeks, but only as a restaurant dish. The cheek is today a classic, but it wasn’t thirty years ago. Rather than staying for a concrete pintxo, I would highlight the shift from lifelong cold pintxo, the Gilda, the Tuna…to cooked dishes. That commitment to sophisticated pintxos.
How can you draw people to Amara and Astoria 7 when going out for pintxos?
Taverns in Amara are not around, but not only from classic pintxos areas, but also among themselves. There is no such vicinity as it is in Downtown, in the Historical Quarter, or Gros. When somebody opens a bar nearby, we don’t make them rivals, they are fellows. We all gain strengh.
When visiting the Astoria 7 hotel, we have also interviewed their head receptionist Miriam Rubio, who has been working there right from the open, 10 years ago. We let her to talk us about the mood during the the Festival season, to see if she shares some gossip with us.
Miriam, do you usually have people associated to movie world hosted here during the festival?
Usually, There are not stars around. As a result of protocol they host in María Cristina hotel, but some of then stay first here, to dress and make up for their arrival.
So could we be lucky and see them around here before there in María Cristina?
Not really. They come in their cars, and do not check in. We work it quietly, just because they want to go unnoticed. They come from a very long journey, tired, and we give them a chance to rest, dress and make up, so they can look awesome when they are onstage, on the red carpet at María Cristina. On the other hand, many, let’s say, secondary Spanish actors have usually been hosted at our hotel, and also production companies’ staff.
Do you usually have events or something like that linked to the festival? You are a theme hotel, so you have all the props!
That’s why that many press conferences are held in the library, and also some small parties, because we don’t have much space. They fell sorry for not bringing us bigger things, since the hotel is not only focused in cinema, but specially in the San Sebastian Festival!!!
It is a common refrain that the neighborhood of Txintxerpe should be the fifth Galician province, due to the many people living there from Galician origins. Pulling this thread, Igara may become the ninth Andalusian province. At least, you could figure it if you arrive to number 19 Igara Bidea Street. No, there is not a teleporter there. It is the Arrikitaun tavern. It is the dream of an Andalusian couple who had already been living for years in San Sebastián: Angel de la Chica and Mayca Madroñal. He, sevillian and supporter of Sevilla FC, takes care of the bar counter. She, also sevillian but supporter of Betis -both teams are everlasting rivals-, takes care of cooking. A disdainful cliché is that andalusians are lazy: tell them if you dare, because they work fulltime to make their business thrive. Now they are having off day on Mondays to rest a bit, but this week they will devote the day to talk with pintxos.es. Angel answers us as nicely as he is when he is pouring “rebujitos” (Sherry mixed with a soft drink) at the bar.
Let’s talk about cliches, Angel. What happened before: the Arrikitaun or “Ocho apellidos vascos” (a popular spanish comedy that plays around the Andalusian and Basque clichés).
We were first, the movie came later. We’ve been there for a couple of years. In fact, some tv broadcasters came here to report, after the movie premiere.
How did you come up with the idea of a Basque-Andalusian corner in San Sebastián?
I’ve been living here for 20 years, and my wife and daughters for 19. We did no do catering work, but my wife always wanted to set up a little Andalusian space, because there wasn’t one. That idea was always around, be we couldn’t develop it due to our daily works. But in 2012 we were fired and received a redundancy fee. We got in the business with that small money. We ran throughout the city, district by district, kicking the street searching for the ideal place. Rental charges and terms are the main problem…we found this one, it was closed, it took a lot to find the owner, but eventually we got it. I used to say that this place is like Galicia: it’s the world’s end. You go to Galicia and come back, it’s not on the way to anywhere, and beyond the Arrikitaun there is only an industrial estate, and a brothel.
You are in Igara, mainly a business and office area: Why did you choose this location?
Price was key. There was a real difference respect to other normal areas, and I am no talking about Center or Gros district, 50 or 60 percent less.
Sure the interior designer was andalusian.
We were the designers, both in the bar and in the small room next to it, which is a dining area, but also is the headquarters for the House of Andalusia in San Sebastian, members only.
How about the first weeks?
We opened on May 31, 2012, with a small opening for friends, acquaintances and neighbors. A simple lunch. Next day, June 1, we opened to the general public. I call that day Black Friday, because everyone came to us: not solely a lot of people, the whole world was here. We weren’t ready: my wife was in the kitchen, I was at the bar, an a friend of us came to help us. We had such a flood of people that, along with our lack of experience, it became a disaster. Thereafter, the weather was great that summer, and every day was the same. We brought our family from Sevilla to work with us, our friends, we also hired people to start building a small team… in order to understand how that summer was, in two months I lost 22 kgs, and my wife dropped to 45 kgs. And not only because of the physical effort: also due to stress. They were calling us from the local newspaper to offer ads, and we were: “No! Don’t tell anyone!” (laughs). We learned the hard way.
Is it difficult to deal with product suppliers? Considering that your gastronomic offer is supplied almost hundred percent from Andalusian sources!
It’s complex and expensive, because it comes almost from Andalusia, one thousand kilometers away. Of course, it travels frozen, due to that we can’t get fresh fish from the south on a daily basis, and shipment drives up the price. We often place large orders, and we have two warehouses with freezer cabinets.
What is the difference between Arrikitaun and the existing andalusian tavern franchises?
Thinking about franchises in general, no only the andalusian ones, makes my hair stand on, they transmit coldness and impersonality. The Arrikitaun is just the opposite: Arrikitaun is a family business. We address people by their name, they do it too, we make jokes…I think patrons in San Sebastian are in need for affection, and we try to bring a smile to everyone.
What do Andalusian tapas bring to the gastronomic offer in Donostia?
We have asked ourselves many times: Why have we succeeded here? I consider myself a winner with the Arrikitaun. But being a victor doesn’t mean I’m rich, eh! We work for hours. We have always said that San Sebastian has very good food venues, but at the same time a wide percentage of them has a similar offer. You can see an extraordinary pintxos counter in this bar, and when you go to the bar next door, you come across a very similar counter. And same thing in the next one. What should, IMO, neighborhood taverns do? Damn, stand out for something! For instance, for a particular pintxo. Make yourself be known for a pintxo. Then you’ll get patrons not only in your neighborhood, they will also come from other quarters to taste that one. That is my theory. We do no live out from our neighbourhood: we have some regulars taking their daily sip, but most of our patrons come by car and go by car. Stand out, even if it’s for a sole pintxo. Get on moving in social, make flyers, put and ad in the radio, it’s it hardly costs anything today…that has been at the heart of our success in Arrikitaun, a different offer, with three keys which lays upon the foundation of success: quality, price and service.
You have told me about distinguishing oneself with a particular pintxo. The 11 Michelin-starred Chefs in Gipuzkoa have chosen your “montadido de pringá” for our List: the 99 best pintxos in San Sebastián. What does this recognition mean to you?
We are proud. We have many clients who go to Seville, and we give them an “anti-guiri” route to find best food spots in the city. And on return they tell us that they have tried many “pringás” there, and that ours is the best one. That there are many taverns in Sevilla, but also many poor taverns.
What’s the secret of your “pringá”?
First, good product. And then, lots of work and love. In essence, “pringá” is made from the crushed toppings of a stew. In Seville, they crush them in a blender; here we do it by hand. My wife takes an entire morning cooking the “pringá”, and she’s got pins and needles in her wrist and toes. But the problem here is that self-employment seems to be free of charge. If I had to pay a worker to do the job, this “montadito” should cost not 2 euros, but 3,50 or 4 euros.
What other dishes from your menu would you highlight?
Well, from our menu, I would highlight a dish that is in everyone’s lips: the “carne mechá”. Lots of worried patrons are coming saying: “hey, I ate carne mechá here the other day”, and I say to them: “don’t worry, no problem at all”. I have breakfasted a montadito today. It’s a meal that also takes a whole morning to cook, and then two more hour to cool down, because it is served cold. We make it in-house. In Seville, they cook it with pork loin, but we use upper loin pieces, because is more juicy. We cook it with sherry, spices…and then we fillet it. We serve it with mojo icon and a little lemon. The issue with that meat has been generated by a single company, and in Seville it happens that, in order not to be cooking the whole morning, they buy the “mechá” already cooked. In our case, there is total security, because we cook it there.
You are also the headquarters for the Home of Andalusia in San Sebastián. What programes do you usually do?
This year we held an April fair. It was in May, we installed a 600 square meter tent in the playground in front of the bar. It was a great success, even though the weather was awful. We filled up the room on both Friday and Saturday, 500 people.
Do you feel the ambassadors of Andalusia in Donostia?
Absolutely.. And we take great pride, because we love our land.
Basque people has the custom of going to the Euskal Etxeas every time they are outside Euskadi: Is it the same with the Andalusians here?
Of course, especially in summer. People come to the camping nearby, or to rural houses. They ask St Google, who knows everything, and he brings them here. And also the Andalusians who live here, even if we are very few, because we mainly moved towards Catalonia during migration movements of the 60s and 70s. Few Andalusians live here, but we all know each other.
And how does the future look?
Well, we have a project in mind, really powerful, but we can not add anything yet. You have to look forward to hearing news about Arrikitaun, soon.
Despite having closed down his three Michelin stars, Sant Pau restaurant, almost a year ago, Carme Ruscalleda is still on the ball. Either with the menus of Moments restaurant in Barcelona and Sant Pau in Tokyo (both of them owning two Michelin stars), sharing their knowledge wherever they request it, or doing research with Cuina estudi, her gastronomic laboratory. In just over a month, “San Sebastian Gastronomika” gastronomic fair will award her with the “Tribute” prize, in recognition of her career, the only female chef to own seven Michelin stars. A perfect excuse to speak to her about her vision of gastronomy and the universe of pintxos.
Carme, do you sleep better without the burden of having a 3 star Michelin restaurant?
In my everyday life, I continue to work with commitment, dedication and creativity. When the media asked me about the closure, I told them that I was going to live on continue vacation from now on, because when I closed the Sant Pau for vacation, I closed that restaurant, but everything else remained running: opened in Tokyo, opened in Barcelona, contacts with companies, schools… Therefore, now I live on constant holidays, because the Sant Pau was the piece that required more commitment and hours devoted by myself, since I felt that my presence in every service was needed. Given that the whole staff working there around me was totally committed, I was a kind of dynamo who was catalyzing all that work, and mainly for my commitment with our customers, who were making the trip and the monetary effort to meet me there.
Therefore, you have mainly freed yourself from the regular schedule routine.
That’s right. Now I have more free time, which I have quickly occupied with social commitments related to gastronomy. Now, more than ever, I am involved in adult training sessions, in colleges, in primary schools…There are weeks that I have daily commitments.
Given your keen response, I sense you have never regretted your previous decision.
No. In fact, I’m going to tell you that was a well considered decision. Me and my husband were very clear that we never would close tired and exhausted. It had to be shut down with the same utmost enthusiasm we use to open every day. Entering a restaurant venue and meet their leaders tired is really sad: that mood spreads quickly to everyone, both staff and customers. We were been open for 30 years, and we thought that was the right time to do it. In addition, we had been working for 20 years before we opened the Sant Pau, so we had a 50-year career behind us, and eager to go on!
The Sant Pau has been transformed in both a bar and also the Cuina Estudi, a venue where research and go for culinary innovation.
In fact, we started Cuina Estudi in 2004, when we opened Sant Pau in Tokyo. There, we fashioned the menus for the Tokyo venue. For instance, right now we are completing a theme menu labeled “the trees of life”: the pine, the almond tree, the apple tree… are trees of life. We made a list of 20 trees, and each one is the main character in one of the menu dishes. Here we have also developed new products and recipe books for the food industry. Now it’s our main project.
Do you enjoy cuisine more by researching, without the pressure of reviews both from customers and from Michelin Guide inspectors?
I still fell like the sword of Damocles hanging over me, both by the public review as for the scoring of gastronomic guides. I am operational, working for the Sant Pau in Tokyo and both Moments and Blanc in Barcelona. Indeed, we are responsible for all the menus served at the Mandarin Oriental Hotel: breakfast or room service, beyond its restaurants.I keep going to bed beaten and angry, searching for solutions to make sure that wouldn’t happen again. And then, next day, something else happens! Life is a learning curve that gives you energy to overcome those limitations you had.
Carme, you have pioneered the commitment to the local product, something that’s also very much present in San Sebastian pintxos taverns.
No doubt. For me, nature is the ultimate source of inspiration. The product shows you different ways to prepare it. It tells you if your ideas are or not on track. We ourselves are part or that living nature, active and fruitful, we feed on it because obviously it’s health, energy and strength, but also it is culinary pleasure, and we are devoted to pleasure!
This year, San Sebastián Gastronomika will award you the “Tribute” Prize: How did you receive the news?
That was: yikes! I am reaching retirement actively! I am a very a very activist retired woman, so I received it with that strength.
You’re the only female chef who has reached 7 Michelin stars, but you rejected the Best Woman Chef in the World appellation: Why?
There, they obviously are laughing at women. We have to claim respect always, working at the very highest level, but when some guys make a list of restaurants, and they are unable to properly understand that when there’s a leader at the restaurant, whether male or female, there is always a team made up of lots of men and women behind. Why do they get the presence of women out of perspective? So, are we doing second class work? This is not a sport were you have to measure male and female strength separately. A restaurant is the idea of a leader, either man or woman, where she or he gives ideas, builds a team, challenges them to keep working every day in their philosophy, loving the product, loving customers…Why do they do such discrimination? I wrote them a lot when the award was established, even tried to open their eyes by telling them if they were planning a chefs of color list for the next year…To make matters worse, at least at the beginning the sponsor of that award was champagne Veuve Clicquot, and I told them that if The Clicquot widow were to see that, she would be delighted to win a prize for making good champagne, but not for being a woman making champagne! Hence, respect for females, nobody is going to give us anything for free; neither the goverment, nor the staff, the market of our customers forgive errors. We contend with the same strength, please respect us.
We have Elena Arzak among us, but there are not many women leading top level restaurants. How can this gap be bridged?
Clearly, training young women very well. Making them feel that if they want, they can. The crucial thing is to have this strength to be a leader and take charge of the team. In the Basque Country there is a lot of tradition with cook women, a lot! All these cook women have to feel that power, and feel themselves first-class citizens like them. There will be as many as they decide.
Do you like to enjoy going out for pintxos when you come to San Sebastian?
Of course! Whet the appetite with those cod and crab pintxos. I Was in San Sebastián when I discovered one thing that I have always practiced afterwards: we were at Ganbara, and they just brought a basket with mushrooms and placed it in a corner, from which it spread an outstanding smell all over the place. We asked them to cook us some mushrooms, and they cooked them rolled, quickly on both sides, and bareback with a raw egg yolk. To burst that egg yolk, which is the most perfect cream sauce that nature has given us, and mix it with the particular umami taste of mushroom, that was something to weep for very joy. I now do it: I prepare a bed of sautéed spinach and a raw egg yolk, covered with rolled mushrooms. What a fantastic dish, discovered in a pintxos tavern counter in San Sebastián! On top of that, it was something they came up with, not one of those well ordered and created pintxos, like that wonderful Gildas.
Do you remember any of our pintxos in a special way?
The cod. I’ve never found a cod pintxo in San Sebastian with a rotten taste, and that’s wonderful. I contend that those who say don’t like cod is not but a bad experience, because they have been served a corpse-flavored cop. Cod is the most delicious fish available, and also the most delicate! So, there has to be a great respect from professionals, to bring it to you with its saline as fresh fragrance, ensuring that, when salting it, they return on a salted mummy to life. In San Sebastian, I never had a corpse on my plate.
The Pintxos App collects the 99 best pintxos in San Sebastian, selected by the 11 Michelin-starred chefs in Gipuzkoa: What do you think of this initiative?
It would be suspicious if a chef didn’t enjoy eating. One of the questions we ask in staff selection processes is where he’s been for dinner lately. This approach helps us to measure their degree of enthusiasm about food, and that will be the degree of excitement the put for attend, in the living room, or in the kitchen. Therefore, do no trust in people involved in gastronomy not enjoying food.
Is the work done in the kitchens of the big restaurants very different from that done in the kitchens of these bars?
Not at all. Whether in a 3 starred restaurant or in a pintxos tavern, when you open the door, everything has to be cooked and introduced seamlessly, fresh and attractive. That respect for the product, for your pintxos offer, and for the customers that will taste them. Therefore, philosophy has to be the same.
The Basque Culinary Centre is located in San Sebastián. It’s a benchmark in gastronomic training, but you are self-taught: What does that bring, that doesn’t an academic training give?
A well trained professional coming out from the Basque Culinary Centre can write the best pages in the history of gastronomy. A well-trained professional who can pass through the Basque Culinary Centre, could write the best pages in the history of gastronomy. I always say that we have achieved a culinary leap, relying on respect for cooking, but best things are yet to come. Kitchens are now full of young men and women who have freely chosen this career and have an academic background. They have even traveled and staged outside our borders. So, the best is yet to come.
If you walk across Pescadería Street any morning, and see a bunch of people standing in line outside a closed blind, you may know that they are not buying tickets for a Rolling Stones show; they are waiting to be one of the few lucky ones that will taste the omelette potato from Nestor bar this day.
The potato omelette is a classic of our bars, but not all are the same. And our jury of Michelin-starred chefs know this well. Among the 99 best pintxos of Donostia / San Sebastián, they have included the potato omelette of the Néstor bar. This is a small place with a reduced offer, but it shines with its own light because of the quality of the product used there. Néstor Morais has been raising the blind of this bar for almost 40 years, and who knows how much longer will he continue doing it, because he is already retired. But yes, he remains active. Anyway, you should not delay your visit to this this landmark too much.
Néstor, your venue will be 40 next year: What assessment do you have?
A very good balance. Mind you, there have been very hard times, but people don’t remember anymore. Now they complain about the huge growth of tourist, and that you cannot walk. When you couldn’t walk it was when they hit you. Sometimes hit with a stone, or knocked by a truncheon, so no kidding. We have lived many days like that. Months, and years. In those days, I survived because people knew me well, and once fighting was over, they came to have a coffee or a night sip. But there were days on which we could not do anything. Anyway, all this happened many years ago, and now all the thing is up. The city is lovely, and it has everything. Prices? Accommodation can be expensive, but if you are used to travel, you know that nothing comes for free anywhere. You must pay for quality, but here you have a lot of very good options for dinner.
The offer in Nestor, in comparison with other venues, is limited.
You are right. Omelette: one in the morning, and another in the afternoon. You get 16 pintxos of each one. There are times when I come to open the place, around 10:30, that there are already people waiting, although we do not register them in the waiting list until noon. We serve the omelette at 1 pm. Until last year, that was my wife, Pilar Senra Lizarazu, who was in charge of cooking the omelettes, but she had a seizure and left cooking. Once I have made the omelette, I begin preparing tomatoes, peppers and steaks. We also make very tasty Gildas, with Nardin branded anchovies, but really not many. And Iberian pork cold meats; that’s all we have.
The expectation to eat your potato omelette is very striking: few venues will have people standing in line in the outside, even two hours before they can consume the pintxo! And it may happen that there some of those people doesn’t even taste the pintxo!
At the beginning, my wife made an omelette, then another, and another … but when the turmoil exploded, we decided that we were only going to do one at noon, and another in the afternoon. That’s when we started adding people to a list, to ensure that the first ones who asked for it were those who ate it. So we served up pintxoa to those who were in the list. On some occasions, we have call someone: John!, someone has answered “I´m here”, and then it has turn out that the listed was another John.
Someone could say that the whole thing about one omelette, the roster…is nothing but a marketing strategy!
We have done it forced by circumstances.
What is the secret of your potato omelette?
Fry the potato with the onion and the peppers, use 14 eggs per tortilla, and get your groove and all your skill on it. We have found our ground, and we get it juicy inside.
How did you get the news that all the Michelin-starred chefs in Gipuzkoa included your omelette among the 99 best pintxos in San Sebastián?
The fact that these people with the highest gastronomic level do recognize our pintxo, it is an honor. There is a lot of venues that are making more of the same, but there are also places that really do a good job, and being in this list recognizes their work.
As we said, Nestor has a limited offer, but its supported by a very good product: Is that the secret of your success?
Trabajamos con el carnicero de esta misma calle, Jon, de la carnicería Asensio, a 20 metros del bar. Con las txuletasWe work with a butcher shop located in this same street. Jon, of Asensio butcher shop, at 20 meters from the venue. We started preparing Txuletas steaks) 20 years ago. In fact I started cooking only one! Every Friday night, table 19 was booked for the Orfeon Donostiarra, a famous local choir. They came after rehearsing and asked me what was the menu. I offered them tomatoes, cold meats…and I said, well, I also have a Txuleta…They ordered two more for the next Friday, so I took two for them and two for ourselves. But other customers saw them dining, and ordered for them. Foru more next week, and things kept growing up…So we started offering txuleta in the menu. Later, the Orfeon stopped coming, since some of them went living outside the city.. and they couldn’t afford drink and drive.
The txuleta, broiled.
Yes, grilled. Our grill, a Repagas, is 39, but take care of it greatly.
And how do you get that fine tomato salad throughout the year?
When we started putting tomato salad, 35 years ago it was not a popular dish here in the Basque Country. They said that it was not “food for Basques”, it had a bad reputation. It was novelty, and some even used to make fun of it. Look now: its a delicacy for all the people in the Basque Country. I buy the tomatoes from the greengrocer in this street. Aitor, from Ekotolosa, a great guy. Now we are getting it in Getaria, from Patxi. He is still growing them at the greenhouse, but soon he will nuurert them outdoors. But I always buy them from Aitor, because he goes everyday to the wholesale market to find the best providers. I know I’m paying a little more, but this way I secure my supply anytime in the year.
Having suppliers 20 meters away, it’s a luxury!
I have even the key to the butcher shop, because our venue is very small, and in our fridge I only can stock some tomatoes and peppers for the weekend. So the butcher leaves more or less that ones we are going to use, and we keep bringing them on request. What if we run out of txuletas? well, I go and cut it myself. He is a great guy.
You only have two tables, numbered 19 and 15: Do they have any reason to be those numbers?
19th is for the Orfeón. There was a man from Madrid, Manolo González Calvet, nice guy, who sang in the Orfeón, but only came to San Sebastián for the last rehearsals. One day he came with some boys from a choir from Madrid, and asked: “Nestor, could we dinner tonight?” And I told him: “sit down in the 19th”. The kids went right to the backside, reaching the bathrooms, not knowing that there was only one table in all the bar, and this was a mess. The next time Manolo came to the venue, he brought me a gift from those boys, a sign that said”Table No. 19″, and so the name remained. And we have a folding table that we named the 15th, just to maintain the joke.
Also, you won’t find many more places where people eats Txuleta standing up!
It´s somehow exciting! Sometimes we have up to 14 reservations. We divide the venue by areas, and put the tables on the street, straining the venue! Sometimes we have to close the bookings justa at 10:30 am. There’s only one guy working at the kitchen, myself in the morning and Igor in the afternoon. We have a great team, with Sebas, Horacio, Gonzalo, Tomás and my brother Tito, who has been with us for 34 years. Anyway, I have to say that I am retired since july. I’m 65 and been working for 49 years, with a staff in charge. Those are who allow me to maintain the venue opened, and make it my own way. I would be sorry to close it, because this is a really nice venue, and would be annoyed if any jerk would be in charge of it. Time will tell.
Bar Néstor
Arrandegi kalea, 11
20.003 – Donostia / San Sebastián
Tel: (+34) 943 42 48 73
Web: bar-nestor.negocio.site
Pablo Loureiro Rodil is lucky. On June 3, at a ceremony held at the Kursaal Convention Center, he received the Euskadi Gastronomy Award to the Best Restaurateur of 2018. This is an award granted by the Basque Government, at the proposal of the Basque Academy of Gastronomy. It recognizes the good work of this chef in front of Casa Urola, a classic restaurant from the Historical Quarter of San Sebastian, who he and his wife Begoña Arenas have been running since 2010.
On the ground of this recognition, we took the opportunity to visit him in his kitchen and chat, take stock of his career in charge of Casa Urola, and learn more about his gastronomic philosophy and his pintxos. We put a great deal in the latter, since Casa Urola is one of the few businesses that have 3 pintxos selected in our List Pintxos – The Starred Chefs List – The 99 Best.
Pablo, what does the Euskadi Gastronomy Award meant for you?
A huge satisfaction, but also, if feasible, a feeling of greater responsability. These awards strengthen us, but also they are committing us to to come up to the mark.
What is your assessment of your seven years in charge of Casa Urola?
Very positive, and very intense. If, when I opened seven years ago, somebody would have told me all the things that were going to happen us, I wouldn’t have believed him. This 7 years, they all went very fast, as well as the 30 years I’ve been involved in the catering industry.
How has the pintxo world changed in these seven years?
Of course, when I arrived, there were people making pintxos long before me. But, in my opinion, I was an early adopter of restaurant concepts inside the bar counter, such as seasonal pintxos. If you change the restaurant menu four times a year, why not do the same with pintxos? For instance, now we also cook pintxos with vegetables, which was something I started doing a long time ago. Every time I see more bars with seasonal pintxos. Cooking them are more labor intensive, but this way you complement your offer, people like the idea, and furthermore I don’t get bored.
How has the Historical Quarter changed in these 7 years?
Obviously, there has been a tourist boom, some say that it is overcrowded … we have to be prepared to meet the demands of all those visitors, but at once I think we should extend the city limits, something that should be good even for bars in the Historical Quarter, that people can go to other districts in the city. And that we will be able to transmit our philosophy to the visitors.
The grill is one of the trademarks in Casa Urola’s gastronomic offer: What qualities make you bet so much for this technique?
Grilling is a hallmark of Casa Urola. It brings that rustic touch, a way of working that goes back to the roots. The grill never lies: it boosts the great and fresh product, while there is no way to improve a bad product. We grill meat and pieces of fish, but also use grilling for cooking more elaborated dishes, using it almost as a spice, giving them a delicate roast, without messing up the core of the product
Pintxo de alcachofa a la brasa con praliné de almendras y jamón
In a restaurant like Casa Urola, what role does the workforce play?
It is critical. In this Historical Quarter, visitors come in spurts. Suddenly, 15 people come, and you need enough labour force in the kitchen, because you cannot make a customer wait. Furthermore, we have pintxos that require a grade of processing: some sauces, some firing, some side dishes… In summer, we are 9 cooks inside the kitchen. It´s a lot for such a small place, but it is the only way we are able to maintain quality standards. Besides that we have the same rush hour both in the restaurant and in the bar counter. Adding to it that downstairs, in the bar, you can eat pintxos but also can request the menu, you can combine both of them. We have trainees of schools such as Luis Irizar´s, and they help us a lot, but also senior workers who give us the expertise we need.
And as far as I can see here, you also sign international workers!
Sure. Now we have two Japanese, and two Koreans. Partly because they likely will help us, along other chefs of San Sebastian, to open a pintxos corner in a Japanese hotel. It is usual for a lot of local chefs to have the desire to learn in some restaurants in Japan, just as a lot of Japanese chefs come here with the same aim. Nowadays, young cooks want to work in as much places as possible, to learn and gain experience. There are no longer kitchen careers, where someone starts from below and raises to head of kitchen. People have concerns, and we have to organize a team of people every year, just as soccer teams.
Casa Urola has 3 pintxos (Karmelita, Vieira a la plancha con ajoblanco, and Alcachofa con praline de almendras y jamón) on our list of the 99 Best Pintxos in Donostia / San Sebastián. What does that entail for you?
It´s awesome. We’ve been making pintxos for seven years, and there are bars that are authentic institutions. Being there side by side is a serious responsability. But it is also a chance to move up a gear and be in a state of flux, and always achieve the highest level: in summer days customers may have to wait a little longer, but the quality of pintxos can not go down.
Do you notice that there is more demand for these pintxos since Pintxos App was launched?
By all means. Specially with Alcachofa (Artichoke) and Vieira (Scallop). The scallop has doubled sales since Pintxos App came out. It has become very popular, as well as the Artichoke, although this one is a seasonal pintxo, from autumn to winter.
What about Karmelita? It’s a classic!
Karmelita, which is a cold pintxo, has also boomed. At the beginning, when we opened, I was more focused on the restaurant, even further considering the huge offering we had around us. But later I saw one opportunity to do something of my own, and that’s where seasonal pintxos came from, following the same path of the restaurant.
Pintxo de Karmelita
What is the secret of a good pintxo?
Good raw material, care, and immediacy. The immediacy is very important. In fact that’s the reason for what we do few cold pintxos. People here see how we work, and they like it: when we run out of Karmelitas, of Gildas…we replenish them, that’s it. Perhaps we have to cook cold pintxos again at 1 p.m. We prefer to do that rather than see pintxos making a long time on the bar counter. And for hot pintxos, we follow suit: they are made at the momento, the scallop is marked on the fly, as is the steak snack, the liver…it´s hard work, but people are not stupid and they appreciate it.
Is it easy to find good quality ingredients?
It is becoming more difficult everyday, because even though chefs have always talked about caring for producers, many of them are leaving, because their work is no longer profitable. We have to commit to them. I see producers as another piece of our team, partners. And if both partner, us and them, are not happy, this alliance will not properly work. We should acknowledge their input, because without it, the whole thing would fall apart.
Which percentage applies to tradition and innovation in Casa Urola proposal?
We have always been described as a traditional, updated kitchen. I do not deny the tradition, but I always think that there is an evolution: in techniques, in kitchen materials, in cooking temperature… Focusing on pintxos, I believe that we would be in a 50/50 between tradition and innovation. Cold pintxo itself is very traditional, while there is much more creativity in the hot ones. Most of them remain as casual interpretations of dishes of the restaurant menu, prepared with the same products.
Do you renew your pintxos offer?
Yes, as I said, on a seasonal basis. For instance, in summer we remove the spring salad, the asparagus cream, and introduce a tuna hamburger, which we make with leftovers of the tuna in the menu. We cook it with poached onion and Iberian pork´s fat, and it goes directly to the bar counter. There are also some sauteed green beans, with cod flakes and potato foam…They are pintxos inspired by dishes in the restaurant menu, which are quite well elaborated.
And are there pintxos in Casa Urola that you could not retire? Because of the demand
The Scallop, the Octopus, the Lobster spoon, to name a few, these could not be removed. And Karmelita, of course. There are few Lobster spoons: lobsters are cleaned for the restaurant, and we prepare the spoon crumbling their heads and legs. We always use the same product for both the bar and the restaurant. If one day we get product for fifteen spoons, there are no more. Once they’re over, you have to wait to the next day to taste it.
Pintxo de vieira a la plancha con ajoblanco
Does Pablo Loureiro like going out for pintxos?
Of course! It’s the way to socialize, to hang out with friends … You’re here all day working, and that walk from bar to bar, where you join different people in different places … That’s the magic of going out for pintxos. Pintxos and socialize go together, and that’s something not to be missed either.
What pintxo of the 99 Best Pintxos, not from your bar, would you like it to be from Casa Urola?
(Laughter) None! Because if they do it so well in that place, I would not get it better. There are traditional pintxos, those of the popular cookbok, which we all do, and moreover those which have a very personal, non transferable stamp.
What about pintxos plagiarism? They don’t have copyright, so if another bar copies you a recipe, little can be done!
A scrambled mushroom dish, some beans with foie…who owns the authorship? They are traditional recipes. Well, copying something without acknowledging that is some type of “tribute” or “in memory of”, that should not be done. Thus, each one prepares the pintxos in his own way, but if you copy something, you should mention it in some way.
Casa Urola
Fermín Calbetón 20
20003 Donostia – San Sebastián
Tel: (+34) 943 44 13 71
Email: info@casaurolajatetxea.es
Gros district, in San Sebastián, is undergoing a major transformation, and this has pushed the opening of many places with an innovative spirit, the whole neighborhood becoming, with regard to going out for pintxos, an inviting alternative to the traditional hegemony of the Historical Quarter, the Olympus of pintxos.
One of those places to visit is Xarma Cook & Culture, a step away from the beach of La Zurriola. Located in a large space previously occupied by a cannabis club, once you go inside you realize that you are in a space full of personality and good taste, something that is becoming less common overall, with much and so many restaurants that have been so similar.
But Xarma Cook & Culture does not come out of nowhere. Aizpea Oihaneder and Xabier Díez achieved to convert the old Xarma, that they managed for a decade in the Antiguo district, a benchmark for San Sebastian’s signature cuisine. But looking for broad their horizons, they closed that one, and opened a year and a half ago this new Xarma with the addition of “Cook & Culture” to its name. We spoke with Xabier about this leap of location, but above all, of concept and seating.
How do you rate this new stage?
Total madness. We came from a small business, making author kitchen or haute cuisine, and here we have jumped in the deep end: we have the bar upstairs, restaurants menu is more extensive, customers have trebled, and right now we are still defining our concept.
This new Xarma has cope with the times, offering a more complete experience: what does that mean?
What we intend to do in Xarma is help people to find their place, that many different kinds of people can find their way here. We like, for instance, to have people tasting a very elaborate menu, and other ones in the adjoining table dining a “txuleta”, the traditional chop. Ditto for our type of customers: we are open to couples, group of friends, business people…all in the same space, with a wide range of gastronomic proposals, and room for everyone.
You have an open kitchen, exposed to the prying eyes of all diners. Don’t you have nothing to hide?
There is nothing to hide, and it allows us to have direct contact with customers. When you are in a closed kitchen, you do not know what is happening in the dining room, you only know what the room team tells you. Here we see the faces of all diners, how they react, what kind of clientele we have … It is a more direct contact in all senses.
As you see customers, they also see you! I mean, you have to control yourself and make good figure all the time, yes?
Clearly. Indeed, since we are here, I have trouble sleeping, and get home with a lot pressure, because here you have to control yourself and put a happy face. It demands more, but we do not regret this commitment.
How important is the workforce in your project?
Absolute. We spent many hours together, with very challenging and stressful moments, which can only be supported by a good team, a good family and lots of closer ties between us. Now that Aizpea and me are 45 and 46 years old, it comes young people that brings new blood, a fresh approach, and help us to progress. If you don’t have a good work team, you fail.
Is Zurriola beach vicinity the ideal setting for a restaurant like Xarma?
Definitely. By location, by everything. In fact, our customers have told us for this year and a half. Some of them miss the old Xarma, but other really love the new offer. Therefore, we are looking for balance, because we cannot afford to do certain type of cooking for the huge volume of people that this venue allows. At this point, we are thinking about reducing the seating capacity, to be able to do the cooking that come from our souls. This space allow us to receive all kind of people, but they have to be relaxed, no etiquettes or bullshit like that.I do not want to impose an experience: the experience is given by your couple, your friends, the producer you speak with…Our food must only be the perfect excuse to live you own experience in the best way possible.
– You have 2 pintxos (Solomillo Euskaltxerri and Piquillo parrillero) on our list of the 99 best pintxos in Donostia / San Sebastián. What has this recognition meant for you?
There are people that come solely and exclusively to taste those pintxos, and by the way they try others, because we have a wide range for cooking pintxos. It goes from the chatka pintxos, that all bars have, but prepared our own way, to grilled piquillo peppers or a tataki pintxo, that are much more sofisticated works. We really have felt that push, people that want to know the restaurant and our pintxos.
Beyond these two pintxos on the list, what other pintxos would you highlight from your offer?
We have a changing offer. When we think something for a weekend, we don’t need to think twice, we do it and put in on the counter. Tradition and vanguard live there together, with no frills attached. Let things taste as they have to. For instance, chatka. Everybody says: fucking surimi chatka… we have given importance to this product, we cook it with good shrimps, put a good crafish oil emulsion…ultimately, we have given the prominence it deserves, and today is the pintxo most often sold.
Pintxo de solomillo Euskaltxerri
What is the secret of a good pintxo?
It must be tasty, easy to eat, if possible one or two bites must be enough to do it, better with no cutlery. The secret of a good pintxo is to take care of the food.
And how important is the quality of that product?
Quality of the ingredients is always important, and simplicity of a pintxo does not always come together with the number of ingredients it carries. You can find pintxos with few ingredients but much more cooking work that other with more ingredients.
Is it hard to find a good product?
No. Moreover, it is becoming easier for the producer to come to your home. You just have to be willing to work it, but that means that, if you want a good product, it has a price, and your margin will be lower. But good product exists, and is available to everyone. Same as the bad one.
How often do you renew your pintxos offer?
It depends a lot on the season: there are seasons that are less generous than others. And it also depends on the inspiration that we have that moment. If I have time and mind something, I do it and we put it on the counter. Sometimes it works, but if not, I eat it myself (laughs).
Since you are in Gros District, is there some pintxo that has already become an essential?
The Piquillo parrillero, practically from the beginning, as well as the Iberian Sirloin Tataki, and now the Puturru de Foie. And Bestsellers are chatka, and longfinned tuna with chilli peppers small roll.
Pintxo de piquillo parrillero
What percentage would you give to tradition and innovation in Xarma’s proposal?
It could be 60/40, although more than talking about innovation, we speak of sophistication. But the objective, rather than seeking that balance, is to come closer to the type of cook we made in the old Xarma, the signature cooking, inspired by tradition.That is what we want to achieve, but we have to find ourselves, adapt the venue to our kitchen, and not our kitchen to the venue.
This year your partner Aizpea Oihaneder was in charge of cutting the new Idiazabal cheese in the “Artzai eguna”, the sheperd´s day held annually in Ordizia. What did this mean for Xarma?
It was a very important recognition for us, and even more so for Aizpea, who has been attending the “Artzai eguna” for many years. The Idiazabal has always been present in our menu, and it is a product with which we work a lot.
Do you like going out for pintxos?
I love it. In fact, I like it more than sit down at a restaurant. I like walk from bar to bar eating pintxos, as also sit down in a bar terrace. I find it much more dynamic, more varied, more casual, and I enjoy it more.
What pintxo of the 99 best list of some other bar you would like to create?
The lobster spoon from Casa Urola, for example, blows my mind. From Bodega Donostiarra, I remember from my childhood the Completo, a sandwich of Spanish white tuna in oil with peppers. I also would eat any of bar Zazpi. In Bar Bergara, I still ask for the Chopito, another one I remember from my childhood, and enjoy the tomato and Tuna tartar. I would walk to each bar to taste one, and also the rest!
